Jeremiah 31

[Blue Bird]

King David's education took place in the fields with his sheep. So what he said and did has no value either?

[searchinmyroots]

These are allegations that are not true. We have Paul, who risked his life several times for his belief in Yeshua and was eventually killed. He was probably one of the best educated Jews of his time and spread the gospel everywhere.

Not well educated...yes, Jesus himself was not an academic, but a carpenter. All his disciples had simple jobs. Did they really have the intelligence to make up a story that could easily have been debunked if they lied? A construct of lies so profound that you think it shook the world and became the most famous religion in the world?

Blue Bird,

Yes, according to the Christian bible Paul risked his life and was killed for his belief. I'm not sure what that proves. 

Being "one of the best educated Jews" doesn't really prove anything either in my opinion.

Many of the Gospels have unknown writers so we don't really know who wrote what. 

How could Joseph Smith and his followers make up a story that can easily be debunked and have so many followers?

What I am saying are not "allegations", they are truth. There are many things written in the Christian bible that are referred to in the Hebrew bible that simply are not there.

Quick example -

If I'm not mistaken, it says in the Christian bible that Jesus died and rose from the dead in 3 days, as it was written in the scriptures.

Where exactly is that written in the Hebrew bible?

Yes, Christianity is probably listed as the "largest" religion, but I'm pretty sure those numbers include people who are JW's, Mormon's, Roman Catholics and 7th Day Adventists and so on. If I'm not mistaken, I don't think you agree with those teachings.

[searchinmyroots]

King David's education took place in the fields with his sheep. So what he said and did has no value either?

Are you sure about that?

If I'm not mistaken, King David referred to the Torah many times in his Psalms.

Those were his instructions.

[searchinmyroots]

I found the verse -

It's in the 24th Chapter of Luke -

44 He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.”

45 Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. 46 He told them, “This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47 and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem (NIV Version)

So can someone please tell me exactly where it is clearly written anywhere in the Hebrew bible - "The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day"???

Thank you.

[Blue Bird]

I found the verse -

It's in the 24th Chapter of Luke -

44 He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.”

45 Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. 46 He told them, “This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47 and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem (NIV Version)

So can someone please tell me exactly where it is clearly written anywhere in the Hebrew bible - "The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day"???

Thank you.

  So you have lived with Christians for decades and you've learned a lot from them and you don't know that?

Time to catch up! 

[searchinmyroots]

I found the verse -

It's in the 24th Chapter of Luke -

44 He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.”

45 Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. 46 He told them, “This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47 and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem (NIV Version)

So can someone please tell me exactly where it is clearly written anywhere in the Hebrew bible - "The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day"???

Thank you.

  So you have lived with Christians for decades and you've learned a lot from them and you don't know that?

Time to catch up! 

Don't know what?

No, I don't know everything the Christian bible claims is written in the Hebrew bible that actually isn't there and is not anywhere to be found.

But I'm slowly finding out!

You asked previously - "Did they really have the intelligence to make up a story that could easily have been debunked if they lied? A construct of lies so profound that you think it shook the world and became the most famous religion in the world?"

I don't know if it is a lie, but it certainly isn't correct and yes easily debunked.

Unless you can show me otherwise.

[Blue Bird]

Don't know what?

No, I don't know everything the Christian bible claims is written in the Hebrew bible that actually isn't there and is not anywhere to be found.

But I'm slowly finding out!

You asked previously - "Did they really have the intelligence to make up a story that could easily have been debunked if they lied? A construct of lies so profound that you think it shook the world and became the most famous religion in the world?"

I don't know if it is a lie, but it certainly isn't correct and yes easily debunked.

Unless you can show me otherwise.

I think your problem with the Christian faith goes much deeper than just a few verses you heard from a rabbi dedicated to "debunking" the Christian holy scriptures. Some attempt to take verses out of context and twist them, others skip such seemingly polite discussions and go straight to spitting and attacking Christians.

[RabbiO]

SMR and Blue Bird -

I can be the adult in the room if need be, but I would prefer for the two of you to work out, figure out, how to respond to and converse with one another in a less contentious, more civil manner, than I have seen of late. There are irreconcilable differences between Christianity and Judaism. I do not make light of that, but that does not mean we cannot deal one with the other without anger and ill feeling.

I don’t want to be the adult in the room. I get to be that an awful lot in the world outside this forum.

[searchinmyroots]

Don't know what?

No, I don't know everything the Christian bible claims is written in the Hebrew bible that actually isn't there and is not anywhere to be found.

But I'm slowly finding out!

You asked previously - "Did they really have the intelligence to make up a story that could easily have been debunked if they lied? A construct of lies so profound that you think it shook the world and became the most famous religion in the world?"

I don't know if it is a lie, but it certainly isn't correct and yes easily debunked.

Unless you can show me otherwise.

I think your problem with the Christian faith goes much deeper than just a few verses you heard from a rabbi dedicated to "debunking" the Christian holy scriptures. Some attempt to take verses out of context and twist them, others skip such seemingly polite discussions and go straight to spitting and attacking Christians.

I'm sorry you feel that way Blue Bird.

I don't see where and I certainly never intend to belittle or "spit" on others whose beliefs are different than mine. I have had conversations with people from all faiths for many years.

I don't have a "problem" with the Christian faith, I have a problem when things are said that do not seem to be correct.

All I asked here is for someone to show me where something the Christian bible says is written in the Hebrew bible is actually written. What is wrong with that?

If the Mormon bible said something was written in the Christian bible that you could not find, wouldn't you be curious to know why they said that or what they were referring to?

[searchinmyroots]

SMR and Blue Bird -

I can be the adult in the room if need be, but I would prefer for the two of you to work out, figure out, how to respond to and converse with one another in a less contentious, more civil manner, than I have seen of late. There are irreconcilable differences between Christianity and Judaism. I do not make light of that, but that does not mean we cannot deal one with the other without anger and ill feeling.

I don’t want to be the adult in the room. I get to be that an awful lot in the world outside this forum.

Thank you RabbiO, but I don't see where I was contentious here.

All I did was respond to the question that was asked of me.

I admit, I may have been in the past, but all I asked here is for someone to show me where something that is claimed is written in the Hebrew bible is actually written.

I was in NYC last week and approached by someone from the "Isaiah 53" campaign. She brought over several others and we had a kind, civil conversation even though we disagreed on many issues. They then brought me to their leader to discuss the questions they could not answer.

After discussing Isaiah 53 in detail, I asked their leader the same question I asked Blue Bird. He said he could not answer my question and walked away.

Is it fair to make a claim that is the basis of a religion, doesn't seem to be true and let it go unanswered?