Jeremiah 31

[Blue Bird]

"Behold, days are coming, says the Lord, and I will form a covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, a new covenant. Not like the covenant that I formed with their forefathers on the day I took them by the hand to take them out of the land of Egypt, that they broke My covenant, although I was a lord over them, says the Lord.
 
For this is the covenant that I will form with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will place My law in their midst and I will inscribe it upon their hearts, and I will be their God and they shall be My people.
 
And no longer shall one teach his neighbor or [shall] one [teach] his brother, saying, "Know the Lord," for they shall all know Me from their smallest to their greatest, says the Lord, for I will forgive their iniquity and their sin I will no longer remember."

I took these verses from the Hebrew Bible and I was curious what the reaction would be if a missionary presented these verses to you.

[searchinmyroots]

Sure, this one is brought up quite often by missionaries and Christians.

I would say to just read what it says and it is pretty self explanatory!

Who does G-d form the covenant with?

What does G-d say the covenant is?

What will happen once we receive this covenant?

What will we no longer have to do?

How will we be forgiven?

If someone would answer those questions, they would see what Jeremiah is clearly saying, not what one might want it to say or be about.

That's my answer anyway, thanks for the question Blue Bird!

[Blue Bird]

Sure, this one is brought up quite often by missionaries and Christians.

I would say to just read what it says and it is pretty self explanatory!

Who does G-d form the covenant with?

What does G-d say the covenant is?

What will happen once we receive this covenant?

What will we no longer have to do?

How will we be forgiven?

If someone would answer those questions, they would see what Jeremiah is clearly saying, not what one might want it to say or be about.

That's my answer anyway, thanks for the question Blue Bird!

Thanks for your answer!

The covenant is with the house of Israel.

The convenant is new, not like the covenant that God formed with your forefathers.

Does that mean that you have no problems with a convenant not comparable with the one made at mount Sinai? Where does the unease then come from when it is spoken of an old and a new convenant (testament)? I don't use the term old and new testament but I think it would be bibical.

[searchinmyroots]

Here are the answers as I see it -

Who does G-d form the covenant with?

The House of Israel and the House of Judah (basically the Jewish people)

What does G-d say the covenant is?

He will place His Law in our midst and inscribe it upon our hearts (we won't have to study it or teach it to our children as previously commanded. We will know it!). He will be our G-d and we will be His people (the Jewish people as noted as the House of Israel and Judah)

What will happen once we receive this covenant?

What will we no longer have to do?

And no longer shall one teach his neighbor or [shall] one [teach] his brother, saying, "Know the Lord," for they shall all know Me from their smallest to their greatest (No more teaching or preaching as the whole world will know the One true G-d of Israel)

How will we be forgiven?

I will forgive their iniquity and their sin I will no longer remember (No sacrifices needed!)


It doesn't say it is not comparable with the one at Sinai, as a matter of fact it is very comparable as it refers to the Law. Except this time it will be written in our hearts.

It is a covenant, not a testament, they are not the same!

All of G-d's covenants are still in effect, the one with Noah, the one with Abraham and so on.

As one can clearly see, this new covenant has not taken place yet.

[Blue Bird]

Thanks for your insight!

All of G-d's covenants are still in effect, the one with Noah, the one with Abraham and so on.

That is why I hesitate to use the common christian title Old and New Testament. It can and does lead to wrong conclusions.

[RabbiO]

SMR -

Language changes, what a word means now may not be what it originally meant. A word can take on additional meanings while retaining a first meaning. That is why within the context of the expressions Old Testament, New Testament, the word testament denotes covenant.

Personally, I don’t use either expression when referring to Jewish and Christian scriptures.

[searchinmyroots]

SMR -

Language changes, what a word means now may not be what it originally meant. A word can take on additional meanings while retaining a first meaning. That is why within the context of the expressions Old Testament, New Testament, the word testament denotes covenant.

Personally, I don’t use either expression when referring to Jewish and Christian scriptures.

Thanks RabbiO.

What language actually changed?

I'm guessing not the original Hebrew word brit?

[Blue Bird]

Old Testament is the most common English term used by Christians to refer to the first major part of the Christian Bible. Old means “ancient”, “having great(er) age” here, not “superseded” or “obsolete”.

From testārī (“to testify”) +‎ -mentum (noun suffix). The biblical sense came about as a confused rendering of Ancient Greek διαθήκη (diathḗkē, “covenant, or (alternatively) will, testament”


https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Old_Testament
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/testamentum#Latin

[searchinmyroots]

Old Testament is the most common English term used by Christians to refer to the first major part of the Christian Bible. Old means “ancient”, “having great(er) age” here, not “superseded” or “obsolete”.

From testārī (“to testify”) +‎ -mentum (noun suffix). The biblical sense came about as a confused rendering of Ancient Greek διαθήκη (diathḗkē, “covenant, or (alternatively) will, testament”


https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Old_Testament
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/testamentum#Latin

Thanks Blue Bird.

But the Christian bible does say something about a "better" covenant, as the old one wasn't faultless.

I disagree because I do not think anything G-d does has fault. It is the people that are at fault, not G-d's covenant in my opinion.

[Blue Bird]

Here is what the Christian bible says about the Jewish Bible:

Until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law. (Matthew 5:18)

The law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. (Romans 7:12)

That is the highest appreciation one can give. What could be better?

Is the Mosaic Covenant better than the Abraham Covenant? What is the difference between the two?