Judaism vs Christianity

[Blue Bird]

Thanks! Yes, you challenge me with your questions and I like that.

You may benefit from reading the Christian Bible cover to cover to better understand the thought processes.

As for your question about whether I need a blood sacrifice or if there are other options, I think there has to be a blood sacrifice that counts for me. It requires more ingredients to make it work for me, but that's another topic.

Would you like to discuss another point?

[searchinmyroots]

Blue Bird,

Well, I only want to go by what G-d's word says in the Hebrew bible. I don't want my feelings or opinions to get in the way of what He is teaching me.

So if it repeats a common theme such as what is written in Isaiah 1, II Chronicles 6 and 7, Daniel 4 and I Kings 8 for example, then that is where my heart is.

So let's move on to another topic.

This is something I do not understand, why Jesus is referred to as Immanuel. I know Matthew 1 seems to quote Isaiah 7:14 as a reference to Jesus (I know Immanuel means "G-d is with us" but many Hebrew names have meaning. Joshua means G-d saves but the Christian bible doesn't call him Joshua), but a careful look at the passage says some things that don't add up in my opinion.

For instance -

If you read what is going on in it's entirety, it is about a child that will be born and there will be a sign to give reassurance to King Ahaz. The way I see it, the sign is written in verses 15 and 16, not 14. A sign is something you can see and verses 15 and 16 explain it very well -

15 - Cream and honey he shall eat when he knows to reject bad and choose good 16 - For, when the lad does not yet know to reject bad and choose good, the land whose two kings you dread, shall be abandoned."

It's clear to me that is a comforting sign for King Ahaz for the time, not verse 14 as a sign for something that may happen hundreds of years later. What kind of comfort would that be?

Also, verse 14 specifically says "and she shall call his name Immanuel."

Please correct me if I am wrong, but I cannot find anywhere in the Christian bible where Mary calls Jesus Immanuel. I also do not understand why Christian bibles change the word from "she" to "they". I also don't see where anyone in the Christian bible calls Jesus Immanuel, except for Matthew's reference. So who are they, which of course isn't the correct definition.

[Blue Bird]

Sorry for suggesting reading the Christian Bible. I understand what you are saying and appreciate it.

But you remind me of my school days. I hated reading Goethe and Schiller and I didn't read a single book until I finished school, except for a biography when I was twelve. All of my tests were based on what my teacher and others in my class said about this book, and I was actually pretty good at it. Was I really able to discuss the books in detail and fairly?

I have a feeling of disconnection when I read your questions about the Christian bible. Yes, I understand you don't want to get too close to the text... it makes your points feel a bit unreal and abstract.

I'll think about your question and see what I can find.

[searchinmyroots]

Blue Bird,

I think you misunderstood what I wrote as I didn't really make myself clear.

When I said "Well, I only want to go by what G-d's word says in the Hebrew bible. I don't want my feelings or opinions to get in the way of what He is teaching me", I wasn't referring to not reading the Christian bible. I was referring to when you wrote  "I think there has to be a blood sacrifice that counts for me"

So basically what I was saying is I don't want feelings, opinions or how I may see into what G-d's word says, I want it to be based on what is written. If it is written many times over and over again in the Hebrew bible that there are other ways to be forgiven for your sins, then that is what I am going by. The whole picture, not just a part that may suit me well.

I have no problem reading the Christian bible and even have family members who watch sermons and church services all the time which I hear quite clearly. So I completely understand the message and purpose of what is written in the Christian bible.

I just only want to follow what was given to me, as a Jewish person. What G-d gave to my people and told us to follow so that we would be as G-d tells us in Deuteronomy 4 - "for that is your wisdom and your understanding in the eyes of the peoples, who will hear all these statutes and say, "Only this great nation is a wise and understanding people. "

[Blue Bird]

Thanks for that, yes I thought you didn't want to read the Christian Bible, which I would understand.

Why do you want to talk about Christian things? You know so much, it's not curiosity or real questions, is it?

[searchinmyroots]

Blue Bird,

I was/am responding to what you said in an earlier post that reflects the title of this thread "I see no difference between what the Christian Bible and the Hebrew Bible teach, and no difference at all in the overall message. If you want to ask more specific questions, I would suggest discussing only one or two questions at a time"

I know some, not so much and am always open to listen and learn new things. Not just with religion, but with life in general.

So yes, they are real questions because it's good to learn what different answers may be. Like what you mentioned about Paul not saying blood was the only way and that he understood there were no sacrifices during the 70 year period between the 2 temples. As I wrote earlier, no one has ever mentioned that before that I know of.

So I learned something.

Not sure if you are aware of this, but there are many things that don't always seem to jive in the Hebrew bible. This is something we study and try to figure out, something that may seem like a contradiction but if you look carefully at the words, surrounding text and other places in the Hebrew bible that may use the same words or phrasing, it may seem to fit together very well.

So I'm continually learning on both sides!

[Blue Bird]

This is something we study and try to figure out, something that may seem like a contradiction but if you look carefully at the words, surrounding text and other places in the Hebrew bible that may use the same words or phrasing, it may seem to fit together very well.

This is a friendly way of dealing with the Hebrew Bible, and the Christian Bible should be treated in the same way.

Like what you mentioned about Paul not saying blood was the only way

Sorry I didn't explain that properly. Yes, of course he says we need blood for forgiveness. But he only refers to the Temple and the Tent in his text. Did you read what I wrote earlier about the dimensions?

[searchinmyroots]

"This is a friendly way of dealing with the Hebrew Bible, and the Christian Bible should be treated in the same way."

Actually, it all has to do with the Hebrew language. So if you want it to apply to the Christian bible, one would have to use the original Greek.

So now I'm confused. Is Paul saying the only way for forgiveness of sin is through a blood sacrifice or not?

I re-read what you wrote about the 2 different dimensions. I think the problem is the definition of sin. It's not just as simple as that one word as there are many types of sins and offerings for each.

[Blue Bird]

And straightway he entered into a boat with his disciples, and came into the parts of Dalmanutha. And the Pharisees came forth, and began to question with him, tempting him. And he left them there, got back into the boat and crossed to the other shore.

(from Mark 8)

[searchinmyroots]

Hmmm,

So it looks as if you are saying I am "tempting you with a question" and you don't feel to answer it.

Not sure how asking a question to explain a verse written in the Christian bible that refers to a verse in the Hebrew bible is "tempting".

It's a straight out honest question because to me it doesn't make sense, so I'm asking for an explanation.

Let's look at it another way -

A Jehovah Witness says something about the Christian bible which you disagree with or don't understand how they came up with that interpretation.

If you ask them to explain their view, are you "tempting" them? If they just turn away and leave you there after you asked your question, what would you think?

If we want to seek the truth, we must ask questions, study and not be afraid to have our views challenged. It doesn't mean we are going to change our views, but we need to be honest with ourselves and look at things from a different prospective sometimes. That is at the heart of Judaism!!

If someone were to ask me a question and I didn't have an answer, I would freely admit it.

Unless of course I misunderstood your post and everything I wrote here doesn't apply.